This is the crux of not only the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but the conflicts with what people have variously called Islamofascists, Caliphists, Al Qaedists, Islamic terrorists etc throughout the world. For the movers and shakers in the Arab world, ideologically, are driven by a geo-political concept that is irreperably dualistic. Not to be completely reductionist (as I know there is a fair bit of nationalism and other isms involved with this situation) but the fact remains that for these people (Hamas, Hezbollah…and the others from Abu Sayyaf to Al Qaeda) all non-Islamic government is illegitimate, and it is their duty (fard?) to overthrow that government and replace it with Shariah Law.

It is a shame that many people (Arabs) who don’t look at the world this way are caught in the middle, but that really is irrelevent when it comes to Israel’s existence (and the existence of the West in general). Just read the Hamas Charter. It explicitly states that the only legitimate government on earth is an Islamic theocracy.

How can you come to a compromise with an uncompromising worldview like that?

The Question we must be thinking about now is how to solve our problems. We have a hostile nation in and around us claiming land, a weak government, and no solution on the horizon.

Any ideas?

Also, when you hear about these so-called expulsions, they all happened during the ’48 war. Now, forgive my squirrely ignorance, but it seems to me that, if 1 out of every 100 people (not soldiers, but total population) is dying, you don’t have the time or manpower to do extraneous evictions. Granted, mistakes were made, but it wasn’t a march to the border; many times, people just went to the neighboring towns. Also, let’s not forget that many people left at the behest of the Arab governments, who suggested that they stay away from the fighting until the Arab armies crushed the Jews.

Furthermore, a lot of Palestinians aren’t actually Palestinian going back generations and generations. Due to the economic activity brought to the region by the Jews, many Arabs decided to move there.

This, I think, ties in with the idea of language and ownership. If we were in 1946 instead of 2006, and we were talking about the Palestinians, we would be referring to Jews.

I’m also in the camp of people that says that the problems of the Palestinians are mostly the fault of the Palestinians and naive left-wing activists. It was the king of Jordan, and later Yassir Arafat who refused to let Palestinians out of the refugee camps (since it would mean admitting that Israel was going to stay). There is very little value placed on secular education, and not much work ethic. It’s not nice to say, but it’s generally true of the modern middle east.

That’s not to say that there aren’t issues. One of the major accomplishments of the war was that Israel got actual, tenable boundaries. As for the territories, you know my position on those, I think. Everything I’ve said so far only applies to within the Green Line. The trick is going to be how to leave them while making it feel like a total defeat/rejection to the Palestinians.

In any event, if the Arab world is still insistant on considering Spain to be Arab land, Israel is in a very bad position.

The site looks a-very nice.

The West Bank was captured and annexed by Jordan, and the 1949 Armistice Agreements defined its interim boundary. From 1948 until 1967 the area was under Jordanian rule, though Jordan did not relinquish its claim to the area until 1988. (wikipedia)

As to the general topic – It is nice to look at it from the historical view, but that does nothing for anyone.
I agree that the Arabs might have had some claim to some land simply by being there. However, their flight, spurred by claims of complete ownership upon return, is directly to blame for their present situation. Like always, they mess themselves over. Does this put a responsibility on us to deal with their mistakes? No. That is the answer we must start from. The fact that no one else in the area has done anything for them, as the world has not either, has left the problem unsolved.
The refugees and Israel in general are a whip for the masses in the surrounding arab countries, therefore the leaders keep the Palestinians (I hate that term – everyone who knows anything, knows it is made up, but uses the word for simplicity) poor, ignorant and disenfranchised. This keeps constant pressure on Israel to do something about a problem they had nothing to do with (directly!!).

Any actions Israel takes are above the letter of the law, and must be recognized as such. There are Israeli-Arabs who stayed and they enjoy citizenship (fine, it is not full, but they do support Israeli’s enemies in general even though they want to live here).
I think it is ridiculous to say that Gaza had anything to do with our conscience on this topic; knowledgeable people realize it was their own actions. Gaza was Sharon’s out of a criminal investigation, and to a small degree, something proactive in the peace process. It does seem now that the pullout was a mistake from this second point.

Back to my point – the history does nothing for anyone. Fine. Forget everything we know. We have a huge population that wishes to enter and be granted rights in a State which are against and wish to destroy.
Even without their violence, the democratic part of Israel would destroy itself as the Arabs became the majority and voted to rename Israel to Palestine and kick out or persecute all the Jews as almost all other Arab countries have.

So fine. We are left with a population in other countries which have been there for decades without anything. What to do, what to do?

The options are as follows –
1. Have the other countries give them rights. (yeah, right, like they care)
2. Have Israel accept all of them back and cease to be (no.)
3. Dunno.
The problem is that I only know the possibilities that will defiantly not work. You want to say create a Palestinian state and have them all go back there. Umm, I am not confidante they Arabs can manage another state. Look what they have done so far with what they have. That’s right, a whole lot of nothing. So what is another option? Like I said above – I don’t know. They can come back if they swear loyalty to the State. We already have citizens who want to destroy it with no promise (Bishara anyone?)

From Daniel Gordis – There’s a small facet of this conflict that seems to have escaped your attention — this war isn’t about territories, or settlements, or the Green Line.
It’s about Israel’s existence. That’s why the issue of refugees wasn’t
resolved at Camp David or in Taba. Israel couldn’t compromise, because
that would mean the end of a Jewish State. And the Palestinians
wouldn’t compromise because the end of the Jewish State was exactly what
they wanted.
(http://lists.topica.com/lists/gordis/read/message.html?mid=805840924&sort=d&start=3)

He has a better piece about visiting an Arab village and hearing Arab MKs speak about wanting to destroy Israel, but I was unable to find it.

In conclusion. I hope someone out there has a better solution, because I see nothing in the future. This is part of the reason I supported the disengagement; at least it was a step in some direction. sigh well, so much for that opportunity.

It does not matter how we got here, but I hope to God that there is a leader somewhere in Israel who has an idea how to get out.